CFL:NFL RB comparisons

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Post by fishman » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:24 am

wildthing1971 wrote:I always think of KK being like Barry Sanders, with that smooth gliding running motion
that's a stretch....I have never seen anyone do what Barry used to do....

KK is closer to Portis in running style IMO.....
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Post by km » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:37 am

I watched a bit of NFL playoffs this year and Brian Westbrook made me think of Corey Holmes, at times. In general, Westbrook seemed like a back that would be well-suited to the CFL game - it's nice to see a player from a small College school get a chance and thrive in the NFL.

Sidenote: Westbrook and Roberts both were 1998-99 season-leaders in NCAA Div I-AA. Westbrook led the league in scoring; Roberts in rushing yards.

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Post by cunninglinguist » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:59 am

Bigger Balls Wrote:

I'm glad you put this question into perspective regarding size and skill.
Not one CFL RB can compare with the talent in the NFL otherwise they'd be there ...


MMRF is gonna be all over you like white on rice for that comment
As LL Cool J once said "Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years"

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Post by cunninglinguist » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:39 pm

I imagine this thread is very quickly going to become one of the classic NFL players vs. CFL players debates where everyone is right and thinks everyone else is wrong. MMRF and I waged a similar one of these debates over at 55yardline last year, so I don’t feel it’s overly important for me to get involved in the argument other than to voice my one main point of NFL players being better than CFL players.

I believe it is a mistake for anyone to believe that all NFL players are better than all CFL players at similar or the same positions, they are wrong if they believe this is the case. To prove this all one need to do is look at guys like Doug Flutie or Jeff Garcia who played up here. While here they were definitely better than a large number of NFL quarter backs.

My argument, however, is that due to the size of the leagues (32 teams vs 9) the number of quality players in the NFL would be enough to replace the majority of Players in the CFL.

As an example consider Quarterbacks.

Peyton Manning
Donovan McNabb
Duante Culpepper
Michael Vick
Brett Favre
Tom Brady
Chad Pennington
David Carr
Drew Brees

There is a list of 9 quarterbacks who I consider to be better than all of the starting QB’s in the CFL (as I’m sure hundreds of you will disagree with).

Peyton Manning and Brett Favre are two prime examples of QB’s who many say couldn’t play in the CFL because they aren’t mobile enough. I recall that just after Marshall signed on to coach Hamilton he was interviewed on TSN and when asked the question “if you could have any quarterback in the world on your team, who would it be?” he responded “Peyton Manning”.

As most people in the football know will agree it’s great to have size and great to have speed and even better to have both. The next argument I am hence addressing is offensive linemen, ie the classic NFL O-lineman are too fat and slow to be able to stop the speedy CFL linebackers and smaller and quicker D-Linemen. Well I guess this would be true if guys like Jason Taylor and Javon Kearse were considered not good enough to play in the NFL because they are too fast. Truth be told, the top notch O-linemen in the NFL are bigger than CFL O-linemen and, unfortunately, just as fast. The same style argument goes when comparing the top corners, receivers, linebacker and running backs. The big question is of course the full back. In the CFL game because of the size of the field and style of game huge Fullbacks as seen in the NFL would be of little use as Half Backs except for short–yardage situations. Here we see a big difference between the games as having a speedy half back who can get into the flats quickly but can also block would be an asset. Hence the NFL full-back would be relegated to having only a specialized roll in the CFL.

In the end I would say only about the top 15 to 30% of players in the NFL would necessarily accel at similar positions in the CFL. Unfortunately, however, that would be enough players to completely over-run the entire CFL roster.

On a final note I would like to address one last comment here about how CFL recievers appear to have better hands than NFL receivers. I think this is a rose colored argument because the top NFL QB’s throw a lot harder than even the hardest throwing CFL QB’s, hence it would be more difficult to catch their passes. Case in point, one of the main reason’s Ricky Ray isn’t starting in the NFL, he can’t throw hard enough, or more correctly, he doesn’t throw as hard as the top guys.
As LL Cool J once said "Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years"

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Post by Alswin » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:49 pm

The calm before the storm.

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Post by bluebomberdude » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:57 pm

Alswin wrote:The calm before the storm.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post by BiggerBalls » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:26 pm

cunninglinguist wrote:
Bigger Balls Wrote:

I'm glad you put this question into perspective regarding size and skill.
Not one CFL RB can compare with the talent in the NFL otherwise they'd be there ...


MMRF is gonna be all over you like white on rice for that comment


Whatever man ...
I am a CFL fan, period.
But even I recognize that the most talented and skilled players will being playing in the NFL. To state a case stating otherwise is simply rationalization or delusional. Athletes are by nature competitive and want to play the game at its highest level and also who would turn down the financial security that the NFL offers. I have yet to hear a player say I'm going to the NFL only because I couldn't cut it with the CFL.
Am I saying that the NFL is a better game? No.
Fans of the CFL have nothing to feel inferior about, but to say there are CFL players of greater football ability than exist in the NFL is fantasy from the reality. Let?s enjoy the game for what it is, a very entertaining game played by good athletes.
Last edited by BiggerBalls on Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Eskimos32001 » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:38 pm

those 9 QBs arent the only ones better....i'm bettin all 32 starters and at least half the backup could start on a CFL automatically

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Post by BiggerBalls » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:44 pm

BiggerBalls wrote:
cunninglinguist wrote:
Bigger Balls Wrote:

I'm glad you put this question into perspective regarding size and skill.
Not one CFL RB can compare with the talent in the NFL otherwise they'd be there ...


MMRF is gonna be all over you like white on rice for that comment


Whatever man ...
I am a CFL fan, period.
But even I recognize that the most talented and skilled players will being playing in the NFL. To state a case stating otherwise is simply rationalization or delusional. Athletes are by nature competitive and want to play the game at its highest level and also who would turn down the financial security that the NFL offers. I have yet to hear a player say I'm going to the NFL only because I couldn't cut it with the CFL. The cream rises to the highest buck as it were ...
Am I saying that the NFL is a better game? No.
Fans of the CFL have nothing to feel inferior about, but to say there are CFL players of greater football ability than exist in the NFL is fantasy from the reality. Let?s enjoy the game for what it is, a very entertaining game played by good athletes.

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Post by cunninglinguist » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:53 pm

Please read my second set of comments BiggerBalls, you'll quickly notice I wasn't disagreeing with you.
As LL Cool J once said "Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years"

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Post by MightyMightyRiderFan » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:32 pm

BiggerBalls wrote:
cunninglinguist wrote:
Bigger Balls Wrote:

I'm glad you put this question into perspective regarding size and skill.
Not one CFL RB can compare with the talent in the NFL otherwise they'd be there ...


MMRF is gonna be all over you like white on rice for that comment


Whatever man ...
I am a CFL fan, period.
But even I recognize that the most talented and skilled players will being playing in the NFL. To state a case stating otherwise is simply rationalization or delusional. Athletes are by nature competitive and want to play the game at its highest level and also who would turn down the financial security that the NFL offers. I have yet to hear a player say I'm going to the NFL only because I couldn't cut it with the CFL.
Am I saying that the NFL is a better game? No.
Fans of the CFL have nothing to feel inferior about, but to say there are CFL players of greater football ability than exist in the NFL is fantasy from the reality. Let?s enjoy the game for what it is, a very entertaining game played by good athletes.


Hi guys! Were you waiting for me? It doesn?t always have to me giving the football 101 classes you know. :wink:

BB: The key point you and others miss is that the CFL and NFL are significantly different games. Football is called a game of inches, right? Why is that? It?s because a few inches can mean the difference between a player being able to get to the corner and turn it up field, or get tackled, or a number of other examples. So clearly the width of the field is a huge factor in determining the kind of player that would excel at the game. The casual fan, however, is often not aware that the CFL field is over 400 inches wider than the NFL field. That makes a BIG difference. And then there are the 3 downs as opposed to the 4 meaning that the NFL?s power running orientation wouldn?t work here, and there are many more subtle and not so subtle differences. To strip it down to some of the basics I often use this example. Picture an NFL drive about to start and put the offence in a 3 WR set with no TE and a RB and a FB. Now stretch the short side of the field 11.5 yards. That?s over 20% wider. Now put an extra WR out there and an extra DB to cover him. Now pretend that there are no 1st downs. Every first down automatically becomes a 2nd down so you?re always starting in second and long.

Now, which players would you use and which plays would you run? Your power running game would be out and you?d mostly use your third down backs. Even on the small NFL field you?d tend to use the faster quicker backs, and when you consider that the field is now over 20% wider what you could really use is a sort of super 3rd down back, and surprise surprise, the backs that excel in the CFL are essentially that, quicker, faster and smaller than almost any NFL back.

And we could go down the list. The differences are greater at some positions and somewhat less at other, but there are significant at all positions. If you check out the links in this thread you will see the differences between the players. NFL RBs tend to be bigger, more powerful, but slower and not as quick. This type of back would not do as well in the CFL game, and there have been a number of examples of just this. Likewise the quicker, faster but smaller CFL style back, the kind that excels at open field running, does not do as well in the NFL game because on the small field there is less room and power becomes more important.

I won?t call you ?delusional? for making the comments that you?ve made. I?ll just say that you clearly don?t understand the game well enough to understand the differences. Look into it a bit more. Look at the facts and not just the hype, and you?ll see the differences.

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Post by MightyMightyRiderFan » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:37 pm

Oh yeah, and I see AlsWin still has that fake quote in his sig. This is the plight of the NFL worshiper. They have to stoop to falsifying information to keep their fantasy alive. :roll: If you are a football fan, otoh, look at the differences in the games and how that affects the type of player that excels at each game, and you?ll learn to appreciate both games even more.

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Post by OVDB » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:54 pm

BiggerBalls wrote:
cunninglinguist wrote:
Bigger Balls Wrote:

I'm glad you put this question into perspective regarding size and skill.
Not one CFL RB can compare with the talent in the NFL otherwise they'd be there ...


MMRF is gonna be all over you like white on rice for that comment


Whatever man ...
I am a CFL fan, period.
But even I recognize that the most talented and skilled players will being playing in the NFL. To state a case stating otherwise is simply rationalization or delusional. Athletes are by nature competitive and want to play the game at its highest level and also who would turn down the financial security that the NFL offers. I have yet to hear a player say I'm going to the NFL only because I couldn't cut it with the CFL.
Am I saying that the NFL is a better game? No.
Fans of the CFL have nothing to feel inferior about, but to say there are CFL players of greater football ability than exist in the NFL is fantasy from the reality. Let?s enjoy the game for what it is, a very entertaining game played by good athletes.


What is delusional or fantasy here is the assumption that players in one
particular league are automatically better by virute of the fact that they're
playing there; the whole "well if he's good enough he would be in the NFL"
argument is a real laugh; and here's another point bud - the NFL is the
highest level of American football, not football period - the CFL is the
highest level of Canadian football; and of course most players would
choose to play in the bigger bucks and prestige league if they could. But
scouting and evaluating football players is not some simple procedure -
it's a very subjective thing and even the allmighty NFL experts make
mistakes and miss out on very good talent some times and also have on
their rosters over-rated "talent" that their decision makers want on their
team for one reason or another. And this still doesn't take into account
the difference in the games where certain players can be more suited to
one game or the other (as MMRF has to point out again and again :? )
The NFL is a great league IMO, with tons of excellent football talent and
they do, with their huge resources, get first crack at the players out there;
but assuming that all NFL players are superior to CFL players is really
foolish IMO and the NFL does not have some sort of exclusive say on who
the best players are.

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Post by Captain Canuck » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:34 am

BiggerBalls wrote:...I recognize that the most talented and skilled players will being playing in the NFL.


We often talk about the anti-Canadian biases in the CFL, but the NFL has biases of its own. Charles Roberts is a pretty talented and skilled player, no? Yet the second an NFL scout sees his height measurements they'll assume he can't take the pounding of a regular NFL gig. Yet he can play 18 games up here.

Oh, I know...there are a few RB's in the NFL under 5'9". But they're in the minority and I'd argue that they face an uphill battle for regular playing time.
"The CFL is fully committed to the Ottawa market. The franchise is not at risk. Ownership wants to do this right and we will be there to support them." Tom Wright, Nov 2005

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Post by Captain Canuck » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:44 am

cunninglinguist wrote:I think the big difference is in the full back/Half back comparison, a guy like Alstott would really only be good for 1 or 2 yard carries in the CFL because he wouldn't be fast enough to move through the more open secondaries.


That's a good example. Back when he and Warrick Dunn were int he same backfield, Dunn would get most of the carries here because he's better suited to it. I don't know what the split was in the NFL between those two (and I'm way to lazy to try to work it out) but I believe it would be significantly tilted towards Dunn in the CFL whereas I don't think that was the case in the NFL.
"The CFL is fully committed to the Ottawa market. The franchise is not at risk. Ownership wants to do this right and we will be there to support them." Tom Wright, Nov 2005

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