CFL:NFL RB comparisons

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Post by MightyMightyRiderFan » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:29 am

cunninglinguist wrote:As always MMRF I await your responses as your arguments are always well thought out and presented in a level headed way. I think perhaps we will always be at an impasse in our discussions with respect to this topic.

I have one question regarding your previous points and it has to do with this area:

You?re missing the point. Yes, if KK was 2 inches taller and 25 lbs heavier and just as quick and fast he would be even better at the CFL game, but there isn?t a single back in the NFL who is that size who has KK?s speed and quickness. I?m not sure there is a single back in the NFL with KK?s speed and quickness period, no matter what the size, but KK is too small and fragile for the NFL game IMO.


I too will go to CNNSI and run some numbers on this, but I'm just wondering if this is more of an opinion on the size and speed of NFL running backs, or if there is good evidence for this. I will look in to this.

Also, I will be making a spreadsheet comparing NFL vs CFL players of similar positions with respect to size, speed, and other realtive factors for that position using NFL combine numbers and such. It will probably take me a week or so to prepare it as the work entailed will be massive, so I'll keep you posted on that one.


In answer to your question about KK, I would call that an informed opinion. KK is unfortunately one of the players it?s hard to find good numbers for. He was apparently a bit of a slacker in college and didn?t put up huge numbers and didn?t rate on the NFL?s radar screen. Even when he first came to the Riders his stock was questionable. He sat on the PR for a year and at one point Danny wanted to cut him and Roy talked him out of it. Then something clicked for him and he decided to get serious and the rest is history. He has apparently run 4.3s for the Riders but there is no published info on that. (As another footnote he?s said he rarely worked out in college and didn?t work on his speed. He just got by with his natural talent!)

So, I think that John Avery would be a better point of comparison because there are lots of good numbers on him. IMO KK is faster and perhaps even quicker than Avery, but Avery is a better person to use because of the availability of his numbers. There are a few NFL backs with Avery?s speed, but only a few.

I also look forward to your tabulations. If you?re trying to do a roughly complete list of players I think you?ll have a couple of problem spots that you may have to make some educated guesses about though. The first problem area is for veteran players who graduated before 1997. Internet numbers are a lot harder to come by prior to that year. Unfortunately this has a significant impact on some CFL positions, like OLB for example. We have many veteran players in this position and many ex-NFLers who?s college careers ended before 97.

The second problem area will be for players who fall far enough outside the NFL prototype that they weren?t covered by the draft prognosticators. On prominent example of this is Davin Bush. At a generously listed 5?8? 165 he was not a consideration for the NFL, but he is one of the fastest players in all of football.
here

Now, when you hear reports of these ?he was once timed at? numbers you do have to remember that this is not the same as a combine time. This is a best ever time and not an average time run on a standard track, which is what you get from the combine numbers. So IMO as an educated estimate you could add roughly 0.1 to these times. This would make Bush?s effective time something like 4.35, which is still phenomenally fast. So I think you?re going to run into a few problems like this. You may also have to subjectively compare one CFL player to another one who you can find good numbers on. Good luck with it! 8)

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Post by BiggerBalls » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:34 am

MightyMightyRiderFan wrote:
Alswin wrote:I realize that I?m probably wasting my breath as this has all been said before, but at least we?ve got you admitting that not all NFL players walk on water, so maybe there is hope for some of this to sink in. :wink:


Walk on water ... never.
Are they superior football players, IMHO yes.
No disrespect but as I said in my inital post, if CFL players were capable, they'd be in the NFL.
Thousands of CFL players have tryed to land a roster spot and few have succeded. There's no shame in it and the CFL is still a far more exciting game.

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Post by MightyMightyRiderFan » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:44 am

BiggerBalls wrote:
MightyMightyRiderFan wrote:
Alswin wrote:I realize that I?m probably wasting my breath as this has all been said before, but at least we?ve got you admitting that not all NFL players walk on water, so maybe there is hope for some of this to sink in. :wink:


Walk on water ... never.
Are they superior football players, IMHO yes.
No disrespect but as I said in my inital post, if CFL players were capable, they'd be in the NFL.
Thousands of CFL players have tryed to land a roster spot and few have succeded. There's no shame in it and the CFL is still a far more exciting game.


And if NFL players were capable, they?d be in the Premier League, or in F1. So what?s your point? What you seem to be failing to understand is that you are trying to compare apples and oranges.

And for completeness, many NFL players have tried to make CFL teams and failed too, of they have made teams and not played well, and there is no shame in that either. The CFL and the NFL are different games and different kinds of players excel at each game. I think there ought to be some shame in not understanding your own country?s brand of football and instead mindlessly bowing down to another country's game, though.

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Post by BiggerBalls » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:10 am

MightyMightyRiderFan wrote:And if NFL players were capable, they?d be in the Premier League, or in F1. So what?s your point? What you seem to be failing to understand is that you are trying to compare apples and oranges.

And for completeness, many NFL players have tried to make CFL teams and failed too, of they have made teams and not played well, and there is no shame in that either. The CFL and the NFL are different games and different kinds of players excel at each game.


:roll:
and if CFL player were capable they'd be in the arena league.
:roll:
Arguably the best CFL athlete to ever strap on the pads was Warren Moon. He ended up being a very good NFL QB as well. Examples of that kind of successful migration is rare. Many CFL all-stars (Kenton Keith, Ricky Ray, Matt Dominguez, Randy Chevrier, John Avery, Henry Burris, Demetrious Maxie, Troy Davis and on and on) have tried to make it in the NFL with little or no success. Even star graduates from CIAU (Jesse Lumsden) first choice is to try the NFL. You are right many former or marginal NFLers have also failed to make the transition to the CFL, but their success rate is about a thousand % better than the reverse. That said, if you want to believe our leagues players are as good, more power to you.

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Post by SectionW » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:16 am

And you are missing the point entirely BB.
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Post by BiggerBalls » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:16 am

MightyMightyRiderFan wrote: I think there ought to be some shame in not understanding your own country?s brand of football and instead mindlessly bowing down to another country's game, though.


Who's bowing down to another country's game?
If you learned to read, I said I prefered the CFL game.
I also see the CFL for what it is, the 2nd best football league in the world.
There's no shame in admitting what it is ....

Whatever .....

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Post by OVDB » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:23 am

MightyMightyRiderFan wrote:
BiggerBalls wrote:
MightyMightyRiderFan wrote:
Alswin wrote:I realize that I?m probably wasting my breath as this has all been said before, but at least we?ve got you admitting that not all NFL players walk on water, so maybe there is hope for some of this to sink in. :wink:


Walk on water ... never.
Are they superior football players, IMHO yes.
No disrespect but as I said in my inital post, if CFL players were capable, they'd be in the NFL.
Thousands of CFL players have tryed to land a roster spot and few have succeded. There's no shame in it and the CFL is still a far more exciting game.


And if NFL players were capable, they?d be in the Premier League, or in F1. So what?s your point? What you seem to be failing to understand is that you are trying to compare apples and oranges.

And for completeness, many NFL players have tried to make CFL teams and failed too, of they have made teams and not played well, and there is no shame in that either. The CFL and the NFL are different games and different kinds of players excel at each game.



MMRF - you're banging your head against a brick wall here :? -
there's always going to be the type of fan who believes that all NFL players
are football super-heroes who are way better than CFL players; which is
fine & dandy and people are entitled to their opinions and everybody
realizes that the NFL has great football talent anyways. However, what I
see trotted out time & time again in these debates is the notion that if CFL
players were "good enough" they'd be playing in the NFL - a huge
generalization that requires lots of assuming: first off - lots of CFL players
have played in the NFL before; some CFL players got cut in NFL try-outs -"thousands" ??? -
and that showed the thinking of one particular NFL team - these players
didn't try-out for every NFL team, nor did many of them get a chance to
play there and do lousy or bomb; so - for maybe a variety of reasons -
a lot of top CFL talent hasn't had much NFL opportunity, so to say they
couldn't play there is silly (and yes, I realize that most of them would love
to play in the NFL)- and the NFL has tons of football players to choose from
and features lots of roster turn-over every season, and they also miss out
on top players some of whom weren't drafted but eventually emerge
(eg. Priest Holmes, Kurt Warner, Jeff Garcia) and some who may go on to
the CFL for a chance to play; and lots of excellent CFL players have had
little or zero interest or looks from the NFL - sometimes they are totally
written off for standard NFL "thinking" reasons - size or some other
measureable or they didn't like their football pedigrees - so if that leads
some to believe that Damon Allen or Calvillo, or Terry Vaughn or Cahoon
or Montford or Barrin Simpson, etc. etc. aren't "good enough" for the NFL and they
are convinced of this even though they obviously haven't seen any
evidence of these guys playing in the NFL, then go ahead - ASSume away.
It's the degree of assuming that the NFL is some all-knowing source of
football wisdom or judging talent that I get a kick out of, but it is a good
example, IMO, of how some sports fans are affected by hype or media
attention or reputation; and maybe also ignorance of the dozens & dozens of
examples of CFL players who established themselves first there and then
went on to play well in the NFL - surely the wannabes would have assumed
these guys weren't NFL "capable" when they were first in the CFL simply
because they were in the CFL. :?: :cl: :bad: :wink:

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Post by MightyMightyRiderFan » Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:42 pm

and if CFL player were capable they'd be in the arena league.

I?m not even sure what point you?re trying to make here. I guess you believe that if NFL players were capable they?d be in the arena league too? That?s the only consistent conclusion from your statement.

Arguably the best CFL athlete to ever strap on the pads was Warren Moon. He ended up being a very good NFL QB as well. Examples of that kind of successful migration is rare.

You clearly don?t know what you?re talking about and you?re rapidly getting yourself into big trouble. There were somewhere around 40 ex-CFLers in the NFL last year including 5 who have been to the Pro Bowl and many more who are NFL starters, but this isn?t even the point. The main point, as I laid out in some detail in my posts in this thread, is that the two games are significantly different and different kinds of players tend to excel at each game.

Many CFL all-stars (Kenton Keith, Ricky Ray, Matt Dominguez, Randy Chevrier, John Avery, Henry Burris, Demetrious Maxie, Troy Davis and on and on) have tried to make it in the NFL with little or no success.

I?ll overlook the fact that you don?t seem to know who is and who isn?t an all-star and bring this back to main point. The two games are different. Unless you address this point you are simply showing your ignorance of the game of football. If you want anyone to take you seriously on this issue you need to first address the game of football and the differences between the CFL game and the NFL game. Fantasies and hero worship might be fun, but this is a discussion about the fact, not the fantasies.

Even star graduates from CIAU (Jesse Lumsden) first choice is to try the NFL.

See bolded portion above.

You are right many former or marginal NFLers have also failed to make the transition to the CFL, but their success rate is about a thousand % better than the reverse.

You are factually flat out wrong yet again, and you conveniently don?t mention the players who have been cut by CFL teams who have gone on to do very well in the NFL.

That said, if you want to believe our leagues players are as good, more power to you.

Again you?ve got it backwards. We are the ones dealing in fact. We are the ones presenting real evidence. You are the one who is living in a fantasy world and seemingly unable to let go of your NFL worship. No one said the NFL wasn?t great at marketing itself, and you clearly have swallowed the hype hook, line, and sinker. If all you want to do is fawn over the NFL then do it somewhere else, on an NFL board perhaps. If, otoh, you want to get real and actually talk about real football, then address the facts that have been presented to you in this thread by me or by OVDB or anyone else. If you?re comfortable believing your fantasies about the NFL and you don?t want to deal in facts and have to give up the fantasies, then this probably isn?t the place for you.

OVDB: I realise that there are lots of these wannabes around. Maybe rather than having to go through this each time we should archive a thread that we can link to every time someone comes here and spouts this same fairytale stuff.

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Post by BiggerBalls » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:08 pm

You're right MightyMightyRiderFan, I'm wrong.
Hope you feel better ...

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Post by OVDB » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:43 pm

MMRF - agreed that maybe it might be a good idea to have some sort of link to
the standard same old cliches and ill-informed notions that we often hear about
the CFL - mostly from media types or casual fans who are, well, er ... entitled to
their opinions anyways - and a thread that provides some alternative views -
so some of us don't have to bother typing out the reply :roll: :wink: :juggle

"If player "x" were "good enough", he would be in the "_FL" , but since he isn't,
he obviously doesn't have enough "talent" to make it" ,
Signed,
somebody who has never seen the player play in/for the particular
league/team but "knows" the "facts".

:smokin: :fb:

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Post by cunninglinguist » Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:59 pm

Here we go, now it's really getting good

MMRF, I too have found it difficult to sometimes track down comparative stats. Outside of using player size stats from the two leagues (which tells you nothing other than NFL players tend to be bigger than CFL players, which solves nothing in our discussions, and serves as evidence to neither side).

I try to stay away from assumptions with respect to player talent, which can be very difficult, because, as you have pointed out, often players improve their personal stats once in their respective leagues by working with strength and or speed training coaches to improve in a certain area they may be lacking. As OVDB pointed out ASSuming just makes an ass out of you and me.

As one who argues from the NFL players being better stand point I do wish to point out that I not be lumped in with that lot who believes everyone in the NFL to be of superior talent to players of the same or similar positions in the CFL, as even I feel this statement to be rose colored by individuals who are subject to media hype.

I do wish to re-iterate my main point in all of this that the best football players in all respective similar positions are in the NFL and unfortunately for CFL players often the difference is only their size and nothing else:

Barry Sanders:
Height - 5'8"
Weight - 203

Kenton Keith:
Height - 5'10"
Weight - 195

John Avery:
Height - 5"10
Weight - 186

Preist Holmes
Height - 5'9"
Weight - 213

In any event, my point from all this is even if we restrict our rankings to saying only the top 25% of players of similar positions in the NFL could actually be considered to be better than CFL players, not considering size, we are left with only 1 player on the 9 teams in each position being a player currently in the CFL.

Yes, I know, I know, I'm missing the point, the games are entirely different. I'm not as eager as you to accept this as an explanation which is why I resist. The game is different enough that the other 75% of NFL players may not be good enough, but I'm fairly confident in thinking I could take the NFL pro-bowl team, show them how to play in the CFL, and them match them up against the CFL All-star team and the NFL team would win due to the talent level of their upper eschelon guys.

I digress and await a response :beauty:
Last edited by cunninglinguist on Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MightyMightyRiderFan » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:18 pm

MMRF, I too have found it difficult to sometimes track down comparative stats. Outside of using player size stats from the two leagues (which tells you nothing other than NFL players tend to be bigger than CFL players, which solves nothing in our discussions, and serves as evidence to neither side).

Well in the NFL.com and Si.com draft reports they almost always list height, weight and 40 times. It would be nicer if we had SS times and other stats but from these numbers we can in fact determine that NFL players tend to be bigger and slower, at least based on 40 times and we are left to make a correlation to SS times which are in fact related to 40 times but there is some variability. I read an article on this recently and can try to find it if you?re interested.

I try to stay away from assumptions with respect to player talent, which can be very difficult, because, as you have pointed out, often players improve their personal stats once in their respective leagues by working with strength and or speed training coaches to improve in a certain area they may be lacking. As OVDB pointed out ASSuming just makes an ass out of you and me.

Player talent can be gauged in a number of ways. College performance is one solid gauge, for example. I would disagree with your statement that players often improve their personal stats in the pros. I KK is the exception rather than the rule. Most players in major NCAA programs will be highly trained and will have gotten close the maximum out of their bodies. There are millions of dollars riding on possible NFL contracts after all. Keith was too small to be an NFL prospect so maybe that?s one reason he slacked off. I also think that CIS players have probably not trained to the same level that NCAA players so there is likely more room for them to improve, and this is one of the justifications for the ratio too. I think there are special cases too. Hervey was a world class sprinter, an alternate on the US sprint team no less, who also played football. I?m pretty sure he trained for sprinting while in college but didn?t bulk up as that would affect his sprinting speed. Generally though, players from NCAA DI programs will be highly trained and close to the peak of their physical limits.

As one who argues from the NFL players being better stand point I do wish to point out that I not be lumped in with that lot who believes everyone in the NFL to be of superior talent to players of the same or similar positions in the CFL, as even I feel this statement to be rose coloured by individuals who are subject to media hype.

We?re going to be a lot closer than in our views than you may think then. These thread are probably gone but other can vouch for me on this. I?ve always said that there is a percentage of upper athletes in the NFL who would be stars in either league. I ball parked this number at around 10% but this is a lose number. After that I think there is a large percentage of NFL players who could probably play in the CFL but not be stars. Some of these player are stars in the NFL but would not be in the CFL IMO because their games aren?t as well suited to the CFL style game. Then I think there are maybe 20%-30% of the players in the NFL who could not make a CFL team. So I don?t see it as a black and white issue but rather a continuum with the ideals for each league being in different places on that continuum.

I do wish to re-iterate my main point in all of this that the best football players in all respective similar positions are in the NFL and unfortunately for CFL players often the difference is only their size and nothing else:

And on this I would disagree, and I can prove it. :wink:

Barry Sanders:
Height - 5'8"
Weight - 203

Kenton Keith:
Height - 5'10"
Weight - 195

John Avery:
Height - 5"10
Weight - 186

Preist Holmes
Height - 5'9"
Weight - 213

Let?s look at the top 15 rushers from last year. I?ll only get the easy numbers right now, i.e. the ones from players who were drafted in 1998 or later, and I?ll see if I can track down the others later.

1 Curtis Martin ? 5?11? 210 drafted in 95

2 Shaun Alexander ? 6?218 4.63 40

3 Corey Dillon ? 6?1? 225 drafted in 97

4 Edgerrin James ? 6? 216 4.38 40

5 Tiki Barber ? 5?10? 200 drafted in 97

6 Rudi Johnson - 5?9? 227 4.65 40

7 LaDainian Tomlinson ? 5?10? 225 4.4 40

8 Clinton Portis ? 5?10? 200 4.4 40 Notes: I?m not sure what the lack of the last digit means. I suspect that it means they are giving a broader range for his time for some reason.

9 Reuben Droughns ? 5?11? 215 4.63 40

10 Fred Taylor ? 5?11? 225 4.6 40

11 Dominick Davis ? 5?9? 213 4.63 40

12 Ahman Green ? 5?11? 218 4.44 40

13 Kevin Jones ? 6? 227 4.51 40

14 Willis McGahee ? 6? 223 4.55 40

15 Warrick Dunn ? 5?9? 180 drafted in 97 Notes: Dunn is one of only 2 starting backs I can think of in the NFL who are under 200 lbs.


So, 1 of these players is as small or smaller than KK or Avery, and 1 of them is as fast as KK while a couple more may be as fast as Avery. I would also add, without numbers, that I don?t think any of these players are as jackrabbit quick as KK or Avery.

In any event, my point from all this is even if we restrict our rankings to saying only the top 25% of players of similar positions in the NFL could actually be considered to be better than CFL players, not considering size, we are left with only 1 player on the 9 teams in each position being a player currently in the CFL.

Yes, I know, I know, I'm missing the point, the games are entirely different. I'm not as eager as you to accept this as an explanation which is why I resist. The game is different enough that the other 75% of NFL players may not be good enough, but I'm fairly confident in thinking I could take the NFL pro-bowl team, show them how to play in the CFL, and them match them up against the CFL All-star team and the NFL team would win due to the talent level of their upper eschelon guys.

I digress and await a response

Well for starters if you?re taking the best players from a 32 team league and matching them against the best from a 9 team league I?d say that there is an imbalance there, but I?ll leave that aside. I presume that this game would be on a CFL field? That scenario poses some interesting questions. Would the NFL team be forced to use the players who were chosen as starters? If so their TE would be a liability and they would have some DL players who would get into trouble very quickly. Who would play the extra receiver and DB position? How do you deal with the 2 safeties in the NFL? If we force one of them to play CB or HB that could be a weak spot for the NFL team too. Many of them are not fast enough or good enough cover guys to play DB in the CFL. Also, depending on who the LBs are they could be in trouble. The NFL threesome would have been selected based on their ability to cover a 53.5 yard field and cover very slow but big TEs and stop more power oriented RBS, but they would have to cover a 65 yard field in the CFL and they would have to cover our SBs and quick RBs. That?s a lot of extra space for players whose job has previously been to cover very different people in a much smaller area. This applies to the DL too as they would be picked largely on their ability to stuff more power oriented RBs on a smaller field. Would they be able to catch scrambling QBs and quick fast RBs on a big field? Would they wear down after a quarter or two of doing this with very few substitutions? That?s very hard to say.

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Post by cunninglinguist » Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:01 am

I think I have to agree with you on the prinicipal that 32 teams vs 9 teams gives an unfair advantage for depth to an NFL all-star team vs. a CFL all star team. I guess the danger with it being an all star team is that to stop a scrambling QB you could take Javon Kearse and Jason Taylor and put them on opposite ends of a D-Line and then that helps to prevent the scrambling. Hence is the danger of it being an all-star game. As well there's the Peyton Manning/Michael Vick factor where by an NFL team could alternate QB's half to half and force a CFL team to have to adjust and cover both (I guess the same thing could be an Anthony Calvillo/Casey Printers deal)

The TE principal is always a tough factor to consider in this scenario. I'd like to see numbers on Tony Gonzalez, but there again, he's the acception and not the rule as he is a little faster hand has better hands than say a guy like Dallas Clark or Jim Kleinsasser. Unfortunately Gonzales was drafted in 97 so I can't find his numbers.

One set of stats I'd like to get my hand on would be time to release stats. IIRC Tom Brady had some of the quickest release stats where from snap to throw was only about 2.3 seconds (but I could be wrong) that would be an interesting comparison (although potentially difficult to compare as the whole one yard gap vs no gap difference between the two leagues.
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Post by MightyMightyRiderFan » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:00 pm

Here?s a very interesting and much more complete and telling set of stats. It?s for the 2001 year which was I think the fastest year, at least as far as RBs go, that I?ve seen yet. Have a look at Corey Holmes? numbers. He?s the fastest to 10 yards and tied for the fastest to 20 and he had a 4.41 over the 40. Note that to 10 and 20 he?s beating guys like Bennett, Tomlinson, McAllister and Blaylock. Look at the SS time too. He simply blows everyone else who ran it away. I would assume that most of the people who chose not to run it decided not to do so because they didn?t think it would make them look good. In other words, I suspect that they didn?t run it because they knew they wouldn?t put a great number.

Note also that generally the quicker 10,20, 40, SS, and Cone times were put up by smaller backs. It?s a myth that NFL players are big and fast. There are a very few ubber athletes in the NFL who are big and fast, and even fewer who are big and fast and quick. By the laws of physics bigger football players are almost invariably slower and not as quick.

It really shouldn?t be surprising that players like Holmes and KK and Avery end up in the CFL. After all, if you were a CFL GM looking at these numbers who would you go after? Can we assume that CFL GMs are not complete idiots? And yet we still have some people, like our friend BB in this thread, who make the utterly illogical and unsupportable assumption that ?all NFL players are better than CFL players,? a statement that is wrong and nonsense to begin with because it tries to compare apples and oranges. :mad:

DAVE-TE'S POSITIONAL REPORT CARD
HALFBACKS PGRD IQ SCHOOL HGT WGT 40-YD 20-YD 10-YD VJ BJ 225 20-SH CONE
TOMLINSON, LADAINIAN 6.5 13 TEXAS CHRISTIAN 5102 221 4.46 2.59 1.54 40 ? 10'4" 18 4.21 6.84
BENNETT, MICHAEL 6.2 18 WISCONSIN 5092 207 4.38 2.54 1.52 39 ? 10'10" 13
MC ALLISTER, DEUCE 6.1 16 MISSISSIPPI 6011 222 4.41 2.52 1.5 37 ? 20
JORDAN, LAMONT 5.9 13 MARYLAND 5102 234 4.57 2.55 1.59 37 24
THOMAS, ANTHONY 5.8 16 MICHIGAN 6015 229 4.58 2.65 1.63 32 ? 9'7" 20 4.44 7.48
BARLOW, KEVIN 5.6 10 PITTSBURGH 6011 235 4.56 2.63 1.61 32
JOHNSON, RUDI 5.5 13 AUBURN 5095 227 4.57 2.56 1.6 37 ? 9'11" 24 4.22 7.32
BUCKHALTER, CORRELL 5.4 17 NEBRASKA 5115 226 4.53 2.62 1.59 40 10'3" 11 4.06 7.08
HENRY, TRAVIS 5.4 9 TENNESSEE 5091 223 4.61 2.67 1.62 35 ? 23
WHITE, REGGIE 5.3 13 OKLAHOMA STATE 5115 228 4.58 2.64 1.64 37 ? 9'6" 17 4.4 7.48
BLAYLOCK, DERRICK 5.2 21 S.F. AUSTIN 5097 194 4.36 2.51 1.57 35 ? 9'11" 18 4.09 7.05
COMBS, DEREK 5.2 19 OHIO STATE 6001 193 4.42 2.52 1.51 35 10'0" 8 4.07 6.96
JACKSON, JAMES 5.2 14 MIAMI 5103 210 4.55 2.58 1.62 35
MINOR, TRAVIS 5.1 22 FLORIDA STATE 5101 197 4.44 2.61 1.53 32 9'7" 9
RHODES,DOMINIC 5.0 13 MIDWESTERN ST. 5090 209 4.52 2.58 1.59 32 14
BARTHOLOMEW,RASHAD 5.0 28 YALE 5105 201 4.51 2.54 1.58 34 9
SHIPP, MARCEL 5.0 19 MASSACHUSETTS 5105 222 4.71 2.71 1.65 32 ? 9'7" 18
EVANS,DeANGELO 4.9 20 EMPORIA STATE 5084 221 4.64 2.7 1.62 35 17
SANFORD,ROBERT 4.9 15 W. MICHIGAN 5101 223 4.64 2.71 1.62 29 18
TAYLOR,TONY 4.9 17 NORTHWESTERN ST 5083 191 4.46 2.55 1.52 38 10'7" 8
BROWN,DEE 4.8 22 SYRACUSE 5104 203 4.6 2.65 1.65
HOLMES,COREY 4.8 17 MISSISSIPPI VAL. 5077 193 4.41 2.51 1.49 39 10'7" 14 3.88 7.01
ALLEN, DAVID 4.7 22 KANSAS STATE 5086 194 4.62 2.67 1.61 31 9'3" 15
BARNES,CHRIS 4.7 16 NEW MEXICO STATE 6004 209 4.54 2.57 1.63 38 20
CRUME, COREY 4.6 28 E. KENTUCKY 5112 225 4.76 2.73 1.64 37 9'7" 15 4.32 7.36
HOMER, DEREK 4.6 12 KENTUCKY 5083 194 4.6 2.67 1.68 32 ? 9'5" 4.3 7.24
FISHER,GEORGE 4.5 8 ABILENE CHRISTIAN 5117 226 4.7
TAYLOR,CHESTER 4.5 17 TOLEDO 5096 200 4.63
WASHINGTON,CEDRIC 4.5 10 BOSTON COLLEGE 5096 200 4.56 32 ?
PAPADAKIS,PETROS 4.4 31 SOUTHERN CALIF. 6005 212 4.51 31
WHITAKER,DEONCE 4.4 16 SAN JOSE STATE 5055 177 4.52 36 10'5" 23
SIKYALA,MUKALA 4.3 19 MARYLAND 5085 211 4.45 36
ROBERTSON,JAMAL 4.2 17 OHIO NORTHERN 5086 195 4.53
CASON,AVEION 4.1 12 ILLINOIS STATE 5086 196 4.43
CARROLL,BO 4.1 8 FLORIDA 5093 166 4.24 32 ?
RAY,RAYNALD 4.0 7 OHIO UNIVERSITY 5096 210 4.6
BROWN,KEVIN 4.0 11 UNLV 5116 226 4.66
CHANEY, JEFF 2.0 16 FLORIDA STATE 5105 193 4.46 35
MITCHELL, HODGES 2.0 24 TEXAS 5065 180 4.53 32 ? 15
http://www.fansonly.com/nfldraft/featur ... backs.html

As a further footnote, Derek Combs is a guy who several NFL teams have tried to turn into a CB. So his numbers are impressive enough for the CB position that they felt they wanted to take him on as a project there.

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SectionW
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Post by SectionW » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:04 pm

Ok MMMRF when this post dies, do you want to post in it to remind us to put it in the archiove, too much details to jsut have it lost again, great research :beauty: :beauty:
May the Cahoon be with you.
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