cunninglinguist wrote:As always MMRF I await your responses as your arguments are always well thought out and presented in a level headed way. I think perhaps we will always be at an impasse in our discussions with respect to this topic.
I have one question regarding your previous points and it has to do with this area:You?re missing the point. Yes, if KK was 2 inches taller and 25 lbs heavier and just as quick and fast he would be even better at the CFL game, but there isn?t a single back in the NFL who is that size who has KK?s speed and quickness. I?m not sure there is a single back in the NFL with KK?s speed and quickness period, no matter what the size, but KK is too small and fragile for the NFL game IMO.
I too will go to CNNSI and run some numbers on this, but I'm just wondering if this is more of an opinion on the size and speed of NFL running backs, or if there is good evidence for this. I will look in to this.
Also, I will be making a spreadsheet comparing NFL vs CFL players of similar positions with respect to size, speed, and other realtive factors for that position using NFL combine numbers and such. It will probably take me a week or so to prepare it as the work entailed will be massive, so I'll keep you posted on that one.
In answer to your question about KK, I would call that an informed opinion. KK is unfortunately one of the players it?s hard to find good numbers for. He was apparently a bit of a slacker in college and didn?t put up huge numbers and didn?t rate on the NFL?s radar screen. Even when he first came to the Riders his stock was questionable. He sat on the PR for a year and at one point Danny wanted to cut him and Roy talked him out of it. Then something clicked for him and he decided to get serious and the rest is history. He has apparently run 4.3s for the Riders but there is no published info on that. (As another footnote he?s said he rarely worked out in college and didn?t work on his speed. He just got by with his natural talent!)
So, I think that John Avery would be a better point of comparison because there are lots of good numbers on him. IMO KK is faster and perhaps even quicker than Avery, but Avery is a better person to use because of the availability of his numbers. There are a few NFL backs with Avery?s speed, but only a few.
I also look forward to your tabulations. If you?re trying to do a roughly complete list of players I think you?ll have a couple of problem spots that you may have to make some educated guesses about though. The first problem area is for veteran players who graduated before 1997. Internet numbers are a lot harder to come by prior to that year. Unfortunately this has a significant impact on some CFL positions, like OLB for example. We have many veteran players in this position and many ex-NFLers who?s college careers ended before 97.
The second problem area will be for players who fall far enough outside the NFL prototype that they weren?t covered by the draft prognosticators. On prominent example of this is Davin Bush. At a generously listed 5?8? 165 he was not a consideration for the NFL, but he is one of the fastest players in all of football.
Now, when you hear reports of these ?he was once timed at? numbers you do have to remember that this is not the same as a combine time. This is a best ever time and not an average time run on a standard track, which is what you get from the combine numbers. So IMO as an educated estimate you could add roughly 0.1 to these times. This would make Bush?s effective time something like 4.35, which is still phenomenally fast. So I think you?re going to run into a few problems like this. You may also have to subjectively compare one CFL player to another one who you can find good numbers on. Good luck with it!