Carbon Tax

Nothing seems to rile up the masses more than these two topics. As a result you can only talk about either in here. this forum will not be moderated, however if it gets really ugly you can report a post

Moderator: Referees

User avatar
iso_55
Legend
Posts: 23849
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:06 pm
Location: Calgary

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by iso_55 » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:13 pm

Lerriuqs wrote:
iso_55 wrote:
Lerriuqs wrote:
iso_55 wrote:Catssuck, all I have to do is look at the formation of the Reform Party in 1987 by Preston Manning due to feelings of western alienation to know that many, many westerners TODAY still feel that their voices are not heard in Ottawa. If push comes to shove & votes are at issue, the west will lose every time. The carbon tax proposal by Dion is proof of that. Like the Gun Registry, the carbon tax is designed to get votes for the Liberals in urban areas of Ontario & Quebec.
Westerners have felt alienation from Eastern politicians since as long as I can remember. I remember Pierre Trudeau coming to Saskatchewan in the 1972 federal election saying it wasn't his job "to sell your wheat". But it was his job to take our taxes. Funny how that worked. The beat goes on.
You don't speak for me as an Alberta voter. You are not here in Alberta. I am and I will speak for myself.
Go ahead and speak for yourself - just stop trying to speak for the rest of us out West... :thdn:
"By rest of us"... you only mean yourself right, squirrel? Funny how you claim to speak for everybody out west but I don't?? Get off your pedestal, squirrely boy. I would never presume to speak for you - nor would I ever want to.
I know I don't speak for all Western Canadians. However, I speak for a large group of Albertans fed up with our province being used as a whipping boy by federal Liberal politicians everytime they want more tax revenue or to pick up some votes down east. And squirrely boy, your province is just getting back on its feet financially thanks to new investment coming into your province from oil drilling & exploration. For the first time in decades your provincial treasury has new money flowing in.
Things are pretty good now in places like Saskatoon & Regina. So good the province is urging its ex pats in to come home from Alberta with the promise of jobs & a better life. If the Liberals get in federally & this carbon tax comes to pass, the boom in your province will be over before it even really starts.
If the oil sands were in Quebec, I wonder how strong Dion's convictions would be towards the environment with a carbon tax???
*Yawn* I didn't claim to speak for anybody but myself. You're the one claiming to know the thoughts of others.
You contributed absolutely nothing to this conversation. Why'd you even get involved??? Next time, unless you have something of value to add, get lost.
I've got soul but I'm not a soldier.

Lerriuqs
Legend
Posts: 10714
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:47 pm

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by Lerriuqs » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:42 pm

iso_55 wrote:
Lerriuqs wrote:
iso_55 wrote:
Lerriuqs wrote:
iso_55 wrote:Catssuck, all I have to do is look at the formation of the Reform Party in 1987 by Preston Manning due to feelings of western alienation to know that many, many westerners TODAY still feel that their voices are not heard in Ottawa. If push comes to shove & votes are at issue, the west will lose every time. The carbon tax proposal by Dion is proof of that. Like the Gun Registry, the carbon tax is designed to get votes for the Liberals in urban areas of Ontario & Quebec.
Westerners have felt alienation from Eastern politicians since as long as I can remember. I remember Pierre Trudeau coming to Saskatchewan in the 1972 federal election saying it wasn't his job "to sell your wheat". But it was his job to take our taxes. Funny how that worked. The beat goes on.
You don't speak for me as an Alberta voter. You are not here in Alberta. I am and I will speak for myself.
Go ahead and speak for yourself - just stop trying to speak for the rest of us out West... :thdn:
"By rest of us"... you only mean yourself right, squirrel? Funny how you claim to speak for everybody out west but I don't?? Get off your pedestal, squirrely boy. I would never presume to speak for you - nor would I ever want to.
I know I don't speak for all Western Canadians. However, I speak for a large group of Albertans fed up with our province being used as a whipping boy by federal Liberal politicians everytime they want more tax revenue or to pick up some votes down east. And squirrely boy, your province is just getting back on its feet financially thanks to new investment coming into your province from oil drilling & exploration. For the first time in decades your provincial treasury has new money flowing in.
Things are pretty good now in places like Saskatoon & Regina. So good the province is urging its ex pats in to come home from Alberta with the promise of jobs & a better life. If the Liberals get in federally & this carbon tax comes to pass, the boom in your province will be over before it even really starts.
If the oil sands were in Quebec, I wonder how strong Dion's convictions would be towards the environment with a carbon tax???
*Yawn* I didn't claim to speak for anybody but myself. You're the one claiming to know the thoughts of others.
You contributed absolutely nothing to this conversation. Why'd you even get involved??? Next time, unless you have something of value to add, get lost.
That's rich coming from you. Apparently "contributions" is now considered any weak, wide-sweeping theory that because something happened long ago it's going to happen again and that many, many people are afraid of it happening...

Yawn. BTW, I did contribute to this thread before you did. This Tax proposal is the beginning of the end for Dion as the Leader of the Liberals. It's political suicide and the movers and shakers of the party are going to let him hang himself with it.

User avatar
iso_55
Legend
Posts: 23849
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:06 pm
Location: Calgary

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by iso_55 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:38 am

You know squirrel, there was a time a few years ago that I actually liked & respected you. Oh well, times change & people change. Now, I don't want anything further to do with you, ever. Can you say the words, "Add Foe"...? I knew ya could. Buh bye.
Last edited by iso_55 on Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
I've got soul but I'm not a soldier.

User avatar
iso_55
Legend
Posts: 23849
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:06 pm
Location: Calgary

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by iso_55 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:47 am

So lerriuqs, I just tried to add you to "My Foes" list but I'm not allowed to do that for a mod. Okay, since I am not allowed, I'll be clear & to the point. PLEASE LEAVE ME ALONE. I request that you stop responding to my posts.
Do you understand? PLEASE LEAVE ME ALONE.
I've got soul but I'm not a soldier.

User avatar
BigRedMachine
Champion
Posts: 3934
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 11:39 am
Favourite Team: Calgary Stampeders
Location: Calgary

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by BigRedMachine » Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:36 pm

In 1986, Bombardier of M ontreal got the CF-18 maintenance contract in a monumental political decision at the time over Boeing of Winnipeg by the federal Tories. Brian Mulroney even admitted back then that the decision to give the contract to Bombardier was totally political even though Boeing's tender was lower than Bombardier. That one decision led to the formation of the Reform party from strong feelings of western alienation & disgruntlement.
I would say that the formation of the Reform Party had more to do with the Conservatives being totally destroyed in the election following Mullroney's last term in office. Apparently the one thing that Canadians accross the country agreed on was their absolute hatred of lyin Brian. And if the Reform Party truly was born of so called western alienation, it really had no hope of ever being accepted as a national party...
"It is people like GreyCupGarry who make the CFL our league, Canada’s league."

-- Jaime Stein, CFL.ca

User avatar
iso_55
Legend
Posts: 23849
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:06 pm
Location: Calgary

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by iso_55 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:09 pm

BigRedMachine wrote:
In 1986, Bombardier of M ontreal got the CF-18 maintenance contract in a monumental political decision at the time over Boeing of Winnipeg by the federal Tories. Brian Mulroney even admitted back then that the decision to give the contract to Bombardier was totally political even though Boeing's tender was lower than Bombardier. That one decision led to the formation of the Reform party from strong feelings of western alienation & disgruntlement.
I would say that the formation of the Reform Party had more to do with the Conservatives being totally destroyed in the election following Mullroney's last term in office. Apparently the one thing that Canadians accross the country agreed on was their absolute hatred of lyin Brian. And if the Reform Party truly was born of so called western alienation, it really had no hope of ever being accepted as a national party...
You are right but I do know awarding the CF 18 maintenace contract to Bombardier in Montreal over a lower tender from Boeing of Winnipeg was the last straw that led to the formation of the Reform Party. At the time & after 1993, I don't think that forming a government was ever the goal. Representing Western Canadian interests was. Remember the slogan, "The West Wants In"??
When the Reform Party morphed into the Alliance in 2000 that all changed.
I've got soul but I'm not a soldier.

jay64
Rookie
Posts: 192
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:18 pm
Location: Moose Jaw, SK

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by jay64 » Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:35 am

Im not totally sold on the green shift, but it is interesting to note that although there is a tax on carbon, there will be a reduction of income taxes that far outweighs the negatives of a new tax.. I believe that one should read the whole plan before they really pass judgement here, but here is an interesting take on the plan:

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/ ... c2166fbeca

User avatar
Terencius1
All Star
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:16 pm
Favourite Team: Saskatchewan Roughriders

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by Terencius1 » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:56 pm

Well, at the risk of political heresay, I am going to Agree with, HOOOF of all people, on Dions plan.

I say we adopt the same thing that Ontario and Quebec adopted, A cap and trade carbon trading system and let the markets decide!

Hmmm, that should please all you free enterprisers out there. incidentally, it's also the Federal NDP's stance.

User avatar
Hoof
All Star
Posts: 861
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:28 am
Favourite Team: Calgary Stampeders
Location: Cowtown

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by Hoof » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:13 am

Terencius1 wrote:Well, at the risk of political heresay, I am going to Agree with, HOOOF of all people, on Dions plan.

I say we adopt the same thing that Ontario and Quebec adopted, A cap and trade carbon trading system and let the markets decide!

Hmmm, that should please all you free enterprisers out there. incidentally, it's also the Federal NDP's stance.
Thanks for the kudos, Terry. Of course you know I'm right and I'll pull ya over to the right team yet. Commie red doesn't suit you anymore, my friend, because you are an entrepreneur now.

Besides, nobody gives a rat's rectum about the Federal NDP anymore, except you, so give it up, comrade! You're rockin' in the free world now and Saskatchewan is finally reaping her dues after many stifling anti-free enterprise years. All hail free enterprise in Saskatchewan because it's about time, eh?


Hoof
GO TURD!!

User avatar
Terencius1
All Star
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:16 pm
Favourite Team: Saskatchewan Roughriders

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by Terencius1 » Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:49 pm

Hoof wrote:
Terencius1 wrote:Well, at the risk of political heresay, I am going to Agree with, HOOOF of all people, on Dions plan.

I say we adopt the same thing that Ontario and Quebec adopted, A cap and trade carbon trading system and let the markets decide!

Hmmm, that should please all you free enterprisers out there. incidentally, it's also the Federal NDP's stance.
Thanks for the kudos, Terry. Of course you know I'm right and I'll pull ya over to the right team yet. Commie red doesn't suit you anymore, my friend, because you are an entrepreneur now.

Besides, nobody gives a rat's rectum about the Federal NDP anymore, except you, so give it up, comrade! You're rockin' in the free world now and Saskatchewan is finally reaping her dues after many stifling anti-free enterprise years. All hail free enterprise in Saskatchewan because it's about time, eh?


Hoof

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I am enjoying the "private sector" sort of.

As for the so called "Free enterprisers" currently occupying the government in Saskatchewan, They implemented an NDP budget. Dropped a lawsuit against their federal cousins, because Harper lied about Saskatchewan keeping their resource revenue and not having it count towards equalization. That's about 2.4 billion, the provincial tories gave up on. They also tinkered with some labour law, basically making everyone who belongs to a union in the public sector, "essential workers" to prevent strikes, and pouring oil revenues into infrastructure. Oh and by the way the "sound fiscal managers" in the Saskparty bought labour peace with the nurses unions to the tune of a 35% wage increase. :o And asking the "public" what they should do with the rest of the money.

Aside from firing "without cause" about 150 Senior Civil serpants. Lawsuits are pending. They haven't implemented your agenda in any way, shape or form, yet. Because they will know what will happen to them if they do.

This province isn't like Alberta with it's one party state, much like Cuba.

There is and always will be, an alternative, unlike Alberta. Sigh

But problems are here, they don't have enough skilled workers to implement already annouced infrastructure programs. And they have no vision for the future, other than to let the good times, (140.00 dollar a barrel) oil, roll. They are much like Ralphy Kliens government, see a problem, throw money at it.

In fact, you should sell you overpriced house in Call girlie, move here, and buy a house and pocket the $100-200 Grand, tax free. However, our house prices here have risen drasitically in the past 5 years.

Imagine, getting anywhere in Regina, in under 20 minutes. Calgarians spend more time in their car driving to and from work, That I can spend that time making more money in the summer.

Of course, you would have to convert to being a Rider fan, a small sacrifice, when one looks at the big picture. It's a condition of residence now, you know, the new Sask Party government just yesterday proclaimed it law! :devil: :tease:

User avatar
Hoof
All Star
Posts: 861
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:28 am
Favourite Team: Calgary Stampeders
Location: Cowtown

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by Hoof » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:30 am

"much like Cuba", that cracks me up, Terry. I always thought guys like you were 'Comrades in Arms' with your commie brethren, like Cuba?


Hoof
GO TURD!!

User avatar
Terencius1
All Star
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:16 pm
Favourite Team: Saskatchewan Roughriders

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by Terencius1 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:14 pm

Hoof wrote:"much like Cuba", that cracks me up, Terry. I always thought guys like you were 'Comrades in Arms' with your commie brethren, like Cuba?


Hoof

Lets see Castro and the revolution happened in 1959, and this year is the 50th anniversay of the revolution.
It's been Fidel, now Raul, in charge. Fidel overthrew through violent means the corrupt Batista dictatorship, that was prepared to do business with American organized crime, for a share of the profits.

In Alberta, lets see now since 1959, one has had Ernest Manning, of Social Credit, and in 1971 Albertans "moved" to a great Canadian, as well as an Albertan, in Peter Lougheed, and changed parties to the "Progressive Conservatives. Lougheed was then followed by Don Getty, Ralph Klein, followed by "Steady Eddie". (DId I miss One?)

It's still basically one party rule in both administrations. In fact, one could argue that Alberta has been under one party rule for much of the last century. My point is, it isn't healthy in a democracy nor in a dictaorship, to have one party or leader rule for that amount of time. Change can be a good thing. Governments are like underwear, one has to change them, often sometimes, because they begin to smell.

Say what you want about the Cubans, they seem to be a fairly functioning society, where Healthcare and education are free, including post secondary education. They have managed to do this inspite of a trade embargo for about the last 40 years, from the United States that is a mere 90 miles away. Lift that embargo and the Cuban people will prosper and change will happen quicker because the state will no longer be in control of the populace due to marketforces.

Raul Castro is attempting reforms, particularly in agriculture, cell phones, computers etc. But it's difficult to get the technology, parts, and infrastructure due to the embargo. It is my view that the Cubans could use a little bit more social democracy rather than communsim, and a little more capitalism, to get more of their people working.

argolio
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6768
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 4:03 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by argolio » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:46 pm

I could see the embargo being lifted, but Fidel would probably have to kick the bucket first.

As for comparing Alberta and Cuba, at least Alberta has had political choices, regardless if you haven't liked the ones Albertans have made. The fact that Cuba's prisons are still filled with way too many political prisoners makes it a no contest when comparing political freedoms on that issue alone. People are still trying to get out of Cuba, not the other way around.
My name is Argolio, and I approved this post.

User avatar
Terencius1
All Star
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:16 pm
Favourite Team: Saskatchewan Roughriders

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by Terencius1 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:01 pm

argolio wrote:I could see the embargo being lifted, but Fidel would probably have to kick the bucket first.

As for comparing Alberta and Cuba, at least Alberta has had political choices, regardless if you haven't liked the ones Albertans have made. The fact that Cuba's prisons are still filled with way too many political prisoners makes it a no contest when comparing political freedoms on that issue alone. People are still trying to get out of Cuba, not the other way around.

On Fidel- I agree! Surprise

On Political choices, true to an extent, I don't buy the allegation that the majority in Cuban prisons are "political". I would assume that the Majority of Prisoners committed the same crimes as those in Canadian prisons.

Alberta is free to make it's own choices and NO, I don't always agree with them. It is the longevity of the governing party that I disagree with. Much like Federal liberals, they have a "culture of entitlement". However, Albertan's made it's decisions with less than 55% of the voting public actually voting, in the last election. Because there was NO alternative, which in the long run, is bad for democracy in general.

Cuba has elections as well, between different factions of the governing party. Candidates were campaigning while I was there.

As for political prisoners, and it's difficult to compare a country with a province, except in general terms. What is the difference between a political prisoner in Cuba, and the detainees in Guantanimo? Both are HELD for political reasons, correct?

User avatar
iso_55
Legend
Posts: 23849
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:06 pm
Location: Calgary

Re: Carbon Tax

Post by iso_55 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:17 am

I agree that Alberta is a one party state. The politicians here are free to give themselves huge raises without fear of political reprisals & million dollar parachutes when they decide to retire. The Tory politicians do what they want to do when they want to do it with absolutely no fear. You have to live here to see what's going on. And shake your head.
I have no idea why the Tories keep getting elected. Well, I do but really... after 36 years you'd think the Alberta Liberals could have found a leader to beat "Mr. Charisma" himself, Ed Stelmach. The only Tory premier in the past 36 years who had integrity was Peter Lougheed. The other guys since??? Yeah, right.
I've got soul but I'm not a soldier.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest