Are You OK With Killing Yourself?

Nothing seems to rile up the masses more than these two topics. As a result you can only talk about either in here. this forum will not be moderated, however if it gets really ugly you can report a post

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larz-7
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Re: Are You OK With Killing Yourself?

Post by larz-7 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:33 am

Sir Purrcival wrote:Yep, that was mine, and I agree, it would be an imperfect solution but as you say, it is the very solution that is often used for a host of thorny problems. There is no perfect answer to this issue but at least with some kind of sanctioning process in place, it would provide a form of detached 3rd person perspective on such decisions. Something that I tend to believe is sorely required when grappling with a choice of this gravity. As you say, the determined person will probably go ahead anyway but consider this for a moment. Insurance companies often provide exclusions to the provisions of benefits in the case of suicides. They do this even if on balance, the decision to commit suicide appears not only reasonable but quite rational. Personally, I would rather see an imperfect tribunal system on the issue than the "not under any circumstances" approach that we currently employ. Just because someone applies and is granted permission doesn't obligate them to follow through. It would however provide some measure of control to those who are facing difficult circumstances in their immediate future. If, for example, I was diagnosed with some form of Alzheimer's, I would be strongly inclined to take what time I had, make my preparations, knowing that my actions wouldn't unnecessarily impose hardship on my loved ones and then at a time of choosing end my life on my own terms rather than lose all that which makes me "me". Right now, as things currently stand, I don't have that right, my family doesn't have those protections and that seems wrong. It is not the solution that everyone would want or even the majority but it is a better solution that what we have right now which in essence makes the last act that some people take in this world a "criminal" one. Ending ones life isn't always an irrational act. We don't classify people who have knowingly and willingly sacrificed their lives in acts of heroism as anything but noble and courageous. Why should our society be so certain as to confer a negative value judgment on those who have other reasons but which may be just as sane and logical.
this makes so much sense
and well written
so our state can send young men and women into war knowing that some will die and thats ok
our state can send soldiers into battle to kill total strangers
you can kill yourself here its just insurance companies wont pay out
humans are the only creatures on this planet that let their children back in after they leave home )B Cosby

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Sir Purrcival
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Re: Are You OK With Killing Yourself?

Post by Sir Purrcival » Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:14 am

Well, believe it or not, taking care of loved ones often does involve money.

We do send young people off to war knowing some will be killed (Afghanistan for example)
We do say it is ok to kill under certain circumstances (Libya)

Why then should it make sense to dictate without exception that it isn't ok to take your own life?

If the first two things are true, then why the exclusion of number 3?

To some, it would appear that #3 seems far less crazy and damaging than #1 or 2 but while our society says that 1 and 2 are ok in some cases, 3 isn't whatsoever. Does that make any sense? Then to further try and enforce that prohibition we get very creative in our threats.

For example:
"Suicides don't go to heaven and can't even be buried in consecrated ground in some circles."

"If you have insurance that you have provided for the safety and security of your loved ones, the insurance company (bastions of caring that they are) can decide not to honour some policies regardless of the circumstances or how long you have been paying."

"Those who assist you (family) can and will be charged with criminal acts regardless of the circumstances."

Does that really seem logical? I'm not encouraging anybody to do anything they don't want to or don't feel is right for whatever reason but that is also the essence of what I'm arguing. People should have a right to choose; not without some limits of course but definitely without the fear mongering. Does anyone really think that the person who throws oneself on a live grenade to save his/her friends should be considered in a bad light. Why not? That person clearly committed suicide. Throwing oneself on a grenade is an act that is going to end ones own life. It is highly unlikely that the person doing so had any thoughts of surviving such a thing so it wasn't an act of mental illness and the person knew what the outcome was to be. Still sounds like suicide. The only thing different is the reasoning for the act. Would it be acceptable to deny survivors benefits under such circumstances?

Compare this to the person who is ill and going to suffer. Maybe that person also has family that is going to have to endure hardships and pain that the person wishes them not to have to experience. Maybe too that person wants a chance to face death on their own terms and with dignity. Some might call that selfish, others would define it more charitably.

In the end, I don't want or expect to convince anybody to think differently than they already do on the subject just to acknowledge that it is a complex issue which defies a simple one size fits all answer.
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Re: Are You OK With Killing Yourself?

Post by B-17 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:06 pm

"In the end, I don't want or expect to convince anybody to think differently than they already do on the subject just to acknowledge that it is a complex issue which defies a simple one size fits all answer."

Excellent point. There is value in the discussion, whether or not there is agreement.

I want to add that there was an excellent documentary on PBS "Frontline" this year about an ALS patient who travelled to Europe in one of the countries where there is assisted suicide and ended his own life. There seemed to be adequate safeguards in place such as a doctor's validation of an incurable, debilitating illness and sound state of mind, the individual having to do the final life ending steps himself by drinking a strong anesthetic cocktail, and triggering a switch himself that activates a timer that turns off his respirator after he was fully unconscious. The entire act is videotaped, and the police investigate every assisted suicice to ensure no wrongdoing.

Both powerful and disturbing to watch. This was obviously a very intelligent and rational and caring individual, who, on the one hand, was fully mentally capable and still able to contribute love, wisdom, etc. On the other hand, someone who was becoming completely paralyzed and would shortly be in a locked in state, unable to communicate, unable to express when he was feeling pain, would have needed a feeding tube and someone to care for all his bodily functions. Basically, took the off ramp to a gentle end rather than being trapped in a painful decline.

Not sure if I'm so far as to condone it as public policy, but have a better understanding of how it was done, and left no doubt that it was what he wanted. Still so many ways it could be abused e.g. relative convincing a patient they should choose this option, even if it is not what they really wanted.

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Re: Are You OK With Killing Yourself?

Post by FootbalYouBet » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:09 pm

as long as I can remember, I have wanted to end my life. I have planned to end my life. I believe it is my destiny to end my own life. Its not a matter of if, but when. Am I ok with it? I look forward to it. Always have. If God chooses to hold that against me, he can do with me what he will. As far as I am concerned, it is my right.
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Re: Are You OK With Killing Yourself?

Post by 294life » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:11 am

June 28 th 2007 took an 11 scalpel blade to the throat after losing a cat named onyx. that was the final straw of my life. today is remembrance day and i am trying to post this at 11:11:11 on the 11-11-11.

June 28 1914-November 1918 was World War I and I feel like I have been through my own version in just that time.

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294life
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Re: Are You OK With Killing Yourself?

Post by 294life » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:12 am

eastern standard time of course. :wink: :cool: :beer:
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Sir Purrcival
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Re: Are You OK With Killing Yourself?

Post by Sir Purrcival » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:15 am

This question is now being challenged in BC Supreme Court.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... icide.html
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294life
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Re: Are You OK With Killing Yourself?

Post by 294life » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:56 pm

Well I am now an official delegate for my riding for the liberal party off to vote in Ottawa next january 14th for our new party prez who will likely be tequila sheila copps. So this is one of many issues which will be on my mind. :cool:
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Sir Purrcival
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Re: Are You OK With Killing Yourself?

Post by Sir Purrcival » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:27 pm

It is certainly a complex issue to my mind. I just find it perplexing how we can be ok with some actions that will often result in unwanted deaths of innocent people (goals not withstanding) but we can be all over the issue of an autonomous, stable adult making a reasoned, rational decision to end their own life. There just seems to be a lack of consistency in how we treat the subject of death and imo. How we treat death is as important as how we treat life. Allowing some with understandable reasons, and going through some kind of filtering system in the end should not result in the shunning and moralizing that it seems to.
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294life
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Re: Are You OK With Killing Yourself?

Post by 294life » Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:01 pm

well derek jensen just added himself on a long list of people that make you think. (or choke)
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