Honest expansion

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Dave in Korea
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by Dave in Korea » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:40 pm

FootbalYouBet wrote:
Rids wrote:
FootbalYouBet wrote: I gotta qustion your inside source.

in the last 20 yrs, canada's population increased by about 25%. So if that continues for the next 20 yrs, then we are looking at doubling the number of teams with only 25% increase in population. I dont think so. I would say, 10-12 viable stable teams at most.
Except you're not taking into account that in the last 20 years the CFL didn't increase by 25% (minus the little blip of the US Expansion). Same with the 20 years before that, and before that, and before that.

Truly we should be at 12 or 14 teams right now and looking to complete the jump to 16. Facilities have been the downfall to the growth of Canadian football since the 40s.
during the last 40 yrs, due to the dollar affecting what import talent we could get, along with the rise of the NFL machine and increased media exposure to the CFL, the CFL has endured many a crisis. Most of the die hard fans of 30 - 40 yrs ago are no longer with us and are not being easily replaced with younger fans. As our aging population thins out, who will carry the ball. So far, it looks to be a much smaller percentage of the population than it was 40 yrs ago.
On the flip side, it looks like a much higher percentage now than, say, 15-20 years ago. All of which just goes to show that total population is only one part of the overall equation, and you can't make a 1:1 correlation between population increase and # of teams possible.
Dream out loud.

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hfxbomberfan
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by hfxbomberfan » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:12 pm

VICIOUSCIRCLE wrote:The inside scoop I'm hearing is a 20 year plan of growth to 16 teams that focusses on the following cities:

All Population figures are from 2006

Victoria - Metro Area 330,000
Kelowna - 360,000 (Inc. Kamloops, Penticton, Vernon & Merritt)
Saskatoon - Metro area 257,000 (Regina Metro Area Pop is only 195,000)
London - Metro Area 457,000
Quebec City - Metro Area 683,000
Moncton - Metro Area 126,000
Halifax - Metro Area 418,000
There's a couple places above where a team would not be viable:

-Victoria,BC - too many "newly-weds" and "nearly-deads".
-Kelowna,BC - nope
-Sasakatoon - The Riders are the province's team.
-Halifax,NS - Why do we keep beating this one. That city sucks for football ! :?
-London,Ont - Southern Ont already has 2 teams and they can't seem to support the team in the biggest market. :?

That leaves:

-Moncton,NB - Perfect choice based on 3 things: geography, great sports city and Maritime's population. :good:
-Que City,PQ - Football mad Quebec, success of Laval Rouge et Or, and a large metro population. :good:
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hfxbomberfan
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by hfxbomberfan » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:17 pm

iso_55 wrote:
fozzy wrote:yes, those cities may have the population but do they have the interest level?

there are junior teams in Victoria, Kelowna, Saskatoon and London who draw anywhere from 500 to 2000 fans on a regular basis. no, it's not professional football but in my experience it's still a very entertaining level of play. if the fans don't flock to those teams already for a measly 15 bucks are they going to shell out $50+ for a professional team?
fozzy wrote:
Come to a Winnipeg Rifles home game. Or a Calgary Colts game at McMahon. Come to an Edmonton Huskies or Wildcats game at Clarke Park & then see if you'll think the same. My son played junior football for the Rifles & if they got 200 fans at Canad Inns when he played there, it was a big crowd. Same in Calgary & Edmonton. Saying a city can't support professional football if they don't support junior football is ludicrous.
Great point on the jr football issue ISO. :good:

If we took into account how well or not-so-well jr football is supported, then Saint John, NB is a better football city than Halifax,NS. I see way better crowds coming out to support a saint John SeaWolves game than a Dalhousie Tigers game in Halifax ! :good: :D
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by wizardsjag » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:47 pm

I'm really looking forward to the day when this league hits 10 teams. Hoping they'll set up the schedule so there's 1 home and 1 road game against each team. After Ottawa gets a team hopefully a team in the Maritime s or Quebec City gets the ball rolling on #10.

Dave in Korea
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by Dave in Korea » Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:34 pm

wizardsjag wrote:I'm really looking forward to the day when this league hits 10 teams. Hoping they'll set up the schedule so there's 1 home and 1 road game against each team. After Ottawa gets a team hopefully a team in the Maritime s or Quebec City gets the ball rolling on #10.
I'd prefer more intradivisional games to return a certain mystique to the two divisions, although I can see the appeal of the balance created from playing each team twice. It just seems it would make the divisions irrelevant.
Dream out loud.

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Cool
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by Cool » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:42 am

Dave in Korea wrote:
wizardsjag wrote:I'm really looking forward to the day when this league hits 10 teams. Hoping they'll set up the schedule so there's 1 home and 1 road game against each team. After Ottawa gets a team hopefully a team in the Maritime s or Quebec City gets the ball rolling on #10.
I'd prefer more intradivisional games to return a certain mystique to the two divisions, although I can see the appeal of the balance created from playing each team twice. It just seems it would make the divisions irrelevant.
Everyone can play each other once, home and and away. I hope the pre-season games also feature one game against an eastern opponent and one game against the west to mix it up even further.
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by ping » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:28 am

Dave in Korea wrote:I'd love to see the league get to 12 teams within 10 years or so. 16 teams seems like a bit of a stretch at this point, but 20 years is a long time, who knows how things might change.

Lets be honest here, what are the chances the argos are around in 20 years? 0 % !!
sorry for being honest, but there done in this market!
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Cool
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by Cool » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:24 pm

ping wrote:Lets be honest here, what are the chances the argos are around in 20 years? 0 % !!
sorry for being honest, but there done in this market!
lol.
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hfxbomberfan
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by hfxbomberfan » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:57 pm

ping wrote:
Dave in Korea wrote:I'd love to see the league get to 12 teams within 10 years or so. 16 teams seems like a bit of a stretch at this point, but 20 years is a long time, who knows how things might change.

Lets be honest here, what are the chances the argos are around in 20 years? 0 % !!
sorry for being honest, but there done in this market!
I really hope you're wrong on that one Dave. :cross: :beg:
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by cromartie » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:16 am

There is probably room for two more a team in the Maritimes once Ottawa is added....somewhere.

And that'll be about it. People have kicked around adding a team in London since the 1970s. The interest isn't there and the money isn't there. I'd like to think QC would be viable, but it doesn't appear as if a sustainable ownership group asserts itself out from under the dreaming of getting the NHL back.

Any other ideas appear to be formed beneath a haze of BC's finest.

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Shi Zi Mi
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by Shi Zi Mi » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:04 pm

For me......it's quality over quantity. 16 teams may seem like a great idea, but how do you maintain a quality product and a stable league?

1) You must have 16 quality owners/ownership groups.......we're struggling to get to 9 !!

2) You must have 16x7=112 QUALITY STARTING non-imports........we're struggling to field 56 !!.......this one concerns me the most, as almost assuredly, the league would be looking to increase the number of imports (thereby reducing the number of starting non-imports)........with 16 teams, I fear we would have seen the last of a starting non-import.
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hfxbomberfan
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by hfxbomberfan » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:35 pm

cromartie wrote:There is probably room for two more a team in the Maritimes once Ottawa is added....somewhere.

And that'll be about it. People have kicked around adding a team in London since the 1970s. The interest isn't there and the money isn't there. I'd like to think QC would be viable, but it doesn't appear as if a sustainable ownership group asserts itself out from under the dreaming of getting the NHL back.

Any other ideas appear to be formed beneath a haze of BC's finest.
Well said Cromartie ! :beer: :D

Like I've said before, Halifax is big enough but crappy support when it comes to sports like hockey and football. New Brunswick has smaller population but with Moncton smack -dab in the middle of the Maritimes; being a superbly well supported sports city; NB is crazy about football; and already having an expandable-ready stadium......
Well, it's just a no-brainer ! :cowboy: :survivor:

Ottawa.....I can't wait to have the CFL back in Ottawa. I will definatley make a road trip the first season for a game or two. Who wants to go with me ? :beer:
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Re: Honest expansion

Post by gadesfan » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:33 am

cromartie wrote:There is probably room for two more a team in the Maritimes once Ottawa is added....somewhere.

And that'll be about it. People have kicked around adding a team in London since the 1970s. The interest isn't there and the money isn't there. I'd like to think QC would be viable, but it doesn't appear as if a sustainable ownership group asserts itself out from under the dreaming of getting the NHL back.

Any other ideas appear to be formed beneath a haze of BC's finest.
It is great to talk about a 16 team CFL, but it is foolish to have any serious discussion about that until we get Ottawa up and running and then a 10th team somewhere in the East. (QC, Moncton or Halifax)

Maybe someday we can have a larger CFL, but let's get through the first step towards that before we start planning the second, third and fourth ones.

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Re: Honest expansion

Post by gordguide » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:53 pm

I have serious doubts about Ottawa's ability to support a new franchise over the short term (5 years) never mind the long term. There's a core of about 10~15,000 fans there but that's where it ends ... corporate support and a city of bureaucrats doesn't make for a solid fan base when you need fans to show up in bad as well as good seasons; fair-weather fans hurt the franchise more than they help.

It hasn't worked in the past and although I understand there is a feeling in the league that the CFL "needs" an Ottawa franchise, I don't think it will ever be viable enough. They should be thinking more of whether Ottawa really "wants" a franchise, and beyond the core fans, I don't see evidence of that.

I'd much rather see expansion to Moncton or Quebec (city) first. Moncton in particular has the right population and entertainment options for a good community fan base. Quebec city could be good but let's not forget Montreal had to scale down it's seating to get successful. Toronto could stand to do the same, actually.

Halifax needs infrastructure improvements and they seem to have their hands full with sports funding right now. If I were a sports fan in that city, I'd be pursuing an NBA franchise first.

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Re: Honest expansion

Post by Solar Max » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:06 pm

On behalf of Renegade Nation, and Ottawa football fans, it gives me great pleasure to say, "Bite me."

Normally I would lay out the case for football in Ottawa, but after doing that for 5 years, I have had it with the naysayers.

I wonder if this might be the right time to be the butthole we are all supposed to be; I for one am tired of turning the other cheek, so perhaps it is.

So gordguide, why do some of you folks in Saskatchewan hate us so much anyway? What was our crime exactly?
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