Make it Seven

Discuss Pro Hockey, Canadian Teams in particular

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Cool
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by Cool » Mon May 18, 2009 5:08 pm

Als Fan Ottawa 1 wrote:I just can't see the NHL letting anyone get a franchise in the Hamilton area for an amount Balsillie is offering ($212.5 million USD). It would be the steal of the century, as his franchise value will probably hover around the $500M mark within 5-10 years.
Is it worth that much? Hockey's worth that much?
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argolio
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by argolio » Mon May 18, 2009 10:12 pm

Als Fan Ottawa 1 wrote:I just can't see the NHL letting anyone get a franchise in the Hamilton area for an amount Balsillie is offering ($212.5 million USD). It would be the steal of the century, as his franchise value will probably hover around the $500M mark within 5-10 years.

This has nothing to do with Bettman hating Canada. People quickly forget he expanded to Ottawa in 1992, but are extremely quick to point up struggling financial markets (at the time) like Winnipeg and Quebec City had to pack up shop.

This is purely a business decision. If there's going to be a team in the Southern Ontario market, it's going to come with a tidy expansion fee the other 29 owners can split amongst eachother. I truly believe Balsilly will one day get his team, this is just another step in his public relations battle with the NHL.
Bettman came aboard in 1993 so he had nothing to do with Ottawa.

I agree that the NHL would much prefer to have a new S.Ontario team be an expansion team, but with so many teams in financial difficulty (Phoenix, Atlanta, Nashville, Florida, possibly Tampa, Dallas and Columbus), I don't see how they could possibly justify any expansion. An expansion team might give these teams an extra $10 million or so, but this new team would almost surely make money and put even more pressure on the poor-performing teams to make the floor when the cap goes up. Don't forget, Phoenix has been losing about $35 million per year for the last few years, so $10 million doesn't help them much. And this is all happening under the system that Bettman said would fix the NHL which he got after shutting down the league for a year.

I don't know if teams in Winnipeg and Quebec City could make money today, but they couldn't do any worse than those other teams.
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Cool
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by Cool » Tue May 19, 2009 10:08 am

An interesting article. The other sports leagues wade in...

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2 ... t-nhl.html
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argolio
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by argolio » Tue May 19, 2009 6:22 pm

Cool wrote:An interesting article. The other sports leagues wade in...

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2 ... t-nhl.html
That tells me they're scared to death of the NHL losing.
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by jay64 » Sat May 23, 2009 11:36 am

argolio wrote:
Cool wrote:An interesting article. The other sports leagues wade in...

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2 ... t-nhl.html
That tells me they're scared to death of the NHL losing.
I agree , but if the NHL does lose, you can be that the other leagues will make their own rules with regards to an owner filing for bankruptcy. Al Davis moved the Raiders back and forth, and Jim Irsay moved the Colts out of Baltimore in the dead of night-- all sports leagues should have rules that govern owners who file for bankruptcy, or want to move franchises--especially since it will be the court, and not the league that decides a team's fate. The court has to take into the consideration of a lot of people-- the owner who filed, the potential suitors, the players who play for the Coyotes, the league and most importantly, the fans. It is interesting that Bettman said he would rather see the team move back to Winnipeg than Southern Ontario, it was an attempt to pit one set of fans against the other, not to mention the fans in Phoenix.

I believe that Balsillie is going about this in the wrong way. If he was going to buy a team, he should have kept quiet about his motives. Now, every team he goes after, the league will be very wary of his ultimate goal. He says he will keep the team in Phoenix for a season, but how many fans will show up knowing that the team is moving in after one, maybe two seasons? If the current owner is losing $35 million, how much will JB lose before getting the OK to move? I wonder if its really worth it for him to buy this franchise.

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Re: Make it Seven

Post by argolio » Mon May 25, 2009 7:13 pm

jay64 wrote:if the NHL does lose, you can be that the other leagues will make their own rules with regards to an owner filing for bankruptcy.
I don't know if they would go there. If leagues were to add rules and restrictions regarding teams going into bankruptcy, that means less flexibility for owners, more conditions on potential buyers, and that ultimately means fewer teams being sold.
jay64 wrote:It is interesting that Bettman said he would rather see the team move back to Winnipeg than Southern Ontario, it was an attempt to pit one set of fans against the other, not to mention the fans in Phoenix.
GB just threw that out there to appease Canadians. He has no intention of returning to Winnipeg, and from what I've heard, people in Winnipeg aren't taking that bait.
jay64 wrote:I believe that Balsillie is going about this in the wrong way. If he was going to buy a team, he should have kept quiet about his motives. Now, every team he goes after, the league will be very wary of his ultimate goal. He says he will keep the team in Phoenix for a season, but how many fans will show up knowing that the team is moving in after one, maybe two seasons? If the current owner is losing $35 million, how much will JB lose before getting the OK to move? I wonder if its really worth it for him to buy this franchise.
After Pittsburgh and Nashville, the NHL knows he wants to move a team to southern Ontario so he was never going to risk buying another team the normal way and trying to get NHL approval. The Count clearly doesn't want JB in the club, and by buying a team going into bankruptcy, JB sees this as his chance to get around NHL rules.
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by Hollywood2 » Mon May 25, 2009 9:41 pm

IMO, the bankruptcy judge will want to avoid making rulings on anti-trust laws. His duty is to maximize return to the creditors. The NHL by-laws bind the Coyotes, but not the Coyotes' creditors.

So I think the deal will be that the NHL will not be able to keep Southern Ontario to themselves if it would have the effect of damaging the interests of the creditors. (In effect, the NHL would be arguing that the creditors should finance the NHL's expansion fee profits.)

The result would be that to block the move the NHL would have to pay off all creditors. Once the creditors have no loss, their interests would be protected.

From what is stated, the NHL would then suffer a loss because the bids for the franchise would not cover the creditors. However, the NHL would have saved the potential expansion fee for a Southern Ontario franchise. So for this to work for the NHL the expansion fee plus the sale price of the Coyotes post-bankruptcy would have to be greater than the amounts to creditors plus operating losses for the year(s) until a buyer for the Coyotes is found.
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by Cool » Fri May 29, 2009 1:47 pm

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Ph ... 6-sun.html

Some pretty nice pictures in the links within the article.

But if public money is used, we want some...
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by Kanga-Kucha » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:26 am

why Hamilton and not Winnipeg? any Hamilton NHL team is seen by everyone is a clear toronto plot to get two NHL teams, like NYC, LA, etc.
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by Sir Purrcival » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:58 am

Really what this seems to come back to again and again is the current administration of Gary Bettman not that this history doesn't pre-date him.

I seem to recall Hamilton being very optimistic of getting an NHL franchise sometime after the 1987 Canada Cup. Copps was new, they had just hosted a large international Tournament an all things were looking rosey in their minds. I know that in some future round of expansion, they were devastated when they were passed over. In the ensuing years, teams have re-located, markets have been expanded into and Hamilton has continued to be passed over. The answer why is pretty simple. Look no farther than the Maple Laughs. That franchise is a license to print money. Even with all the awful teams they have iced over the years, the market there is just rabid enough to continue to support them. Why would they want to Share a piece of that pie. The NHL has catered to those interests for far too long and Bettman has been a stalwart guardian of this policy. He has entrenched himself in a position that is no longer tenable in this day and age. Teams like the Jets and the Nordiques supposedly moved because the markets weren't big enough to support them. How do they compare with the likes of Nashville and Atlanta? The very reasons that these Canadian Markets lost out has only been repeated and amplified during Bettman's great southern adventure.

If a city of known hockey fans like Winnipeg can't support an NHL franchise then expanding to the likes of Nashville was utter folly. Bettman's Folly it should be called. Now someone is challenging the right of the NHL to completely determine where hockey market's are located. The only reason this has any legs at all is because of the NHL's vigorous pursuit of questionable markets. If they had demonstrated more judiciousness in choosing their markets then perhaps they wouldn't be in this fix now. Bettman has to go and someone who can recognize hockey fans and has the business smarts needs to replace him. This guy has not been good for hockey over all and I hope the league Governor's will finally see past the $$ signs and give this fool the heave ho.
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by Kanga-Kucha » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:16 pm

Sir Purrcival wrote:Really what this seems to come back to again and again is the current administration of Gary Bettman not that this history doesn't pre-date him.

I seem to recall Hamilton being very optimistic of getting an NHL franchise sometime after the 1987 Canada Cup. Copps was new, they had just hosted a large international Tournament an all things were looking rosey in their minds. I know that in some future round of expansion, they were devastated when they were passed over. In the ensuing years, teams have re-located, markets have been expanded into and Hamilton has continued to be passed over. The answer why is pretty simple. Look no farther than the Maple Laughs. That franchise is a license to print money. Even with all the awful teams they have iced over the years, the market there is just rabid enough to continue to support them. Why would they want to Share a piece of that pie. The NHL has catered to those interests for far too long and Bettman has been a stalwart guardian of this policy. He has entrenched himself in a position that is no longer tenable in this day and age. Teams like the Jets and the Nordiques supposedly moved because the markets weren't big enough to support them. How do they compare with the likes of Nashville and Atlanta? The very reasons that these Canadian Markets lost out has only been repeated and amplified during Bettman's great southern adventure.

If a city of known hockey fans like Winnipeg can't support an NHL franchise then expanding to the likes of Nashville was utter folly. Bettman's Folly it should be called. Now someone is challenging the right of the NHL to completely determine where hockey market's are located. The only reason this has any legs at all is because of the NHL's vigorous pursuit of questionable markets. If they had demonstrated more judiciousness in choosing their markets then perhaps they wouldn't be in this fix now. Bettman has to go and someone who can recognize hockey fans and has the business smarts needs to replace him. This guy has not been good for hockey over all and I hope the league Governor's will finally see past the $$ signs and give this fool the heave ho.
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by Bobbyp » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:32 pm

Those bastards at mlse will make nothing but money if that clown moves the team to Hamilton http://www.torontosun.com/sports/column ... 1-sun.html
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by Bobbyp » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:32 pm

30 degrees outside and their still playing hockey. What a joke.
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Cool
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by Cool » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:05 am

Do you think this will have a postive effect on the city of Hamilton? Will this create more sports buzz for all teams involved? Make Hamilton more of a place to be?
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Ravi Ramkissoonsingh
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Re: Make it Seven

Post by Ravi Ramkissoonsingh » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:49 pm

Cool wrote:Do you think this will have a postive effect on the city of Hamilton? Will this create more sports buzz for all teams involved? Make Hamilton more of a place to be?
It is a moot point now as the judge has ruled against Balsillie and NHL hockey will not be played in Hamilton any time soon.
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